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Interview with Rorion Gracie

By Andreh Anderson

In February of 2003, Rorion Gracie will attempt to do to the Brazilian jiu-jitsu world what he did to the martial arts world in 1993-revolutionize it. With a bold new set of rules and the most enviable first prizes in the sport, Rorion is bound to make a huge difference in the direction the sport has taken.

The tournament is called the I.G.J.J.F. Open Championship, and it will take place in Carson, California, on February 1st and 2nd.

The rules are quite controversial. Points are only awarded for obtaining positions that demonstrate total control, not for actions such as takedowns or sweeps. There is no time limit, and no advantage points. The winner is the first one to twelve points, or to make his opponent submit. Stalling for any length of time will be penalized with a reverse in position. Competitors will be encouraged to look for an end to the fight, and will not be able to ride out the clock for a win.

I met with Rorion at the world famous Gracie Academy in Torrance, California, to discuss the tournament, his critics, and the unique rewards he is awarding for first place.

Andreh Anderson: You are credited with bringing jiu-jitsu to America, and subsequently, the world. There are now thousands of people training in the art your family developed. Are you pleased with the way jiu-jitsu has grown worldwide?

Rorion Gracie: I am very happy with the way the world has embraced Gracie jiu-jitsu. That was my goal. Unfortunately, I find that jiu-jitsu, at this time, has turned away from the original objectives for which it was intended.
How so?
Jiu-jitsu tournaments today encourage stalling. The rules teach a person to score a point then to hold on until time runs out. That's not the reason people started training, nor is it the reason that the art is appreciated. The reason people admire and respect jiu-jitsu is because they saw one competitor demonstrate clear superiority over his opponent by submitting him. Jiu-jitsu tournaments today don't offer that. This is why I created this tournament. I want to return jiu-jitsu to the ideals it was developed for.
What are those ideals?
Everyone who practices today wants to copy the effectiveness they saw when Royce was initially in the U.F.C. Every small person who saw Royce, and other jiu-jitsu fighters, defeat the big guy said to himself, "I can do that too!" But that is only true if they step into the fight with the same objective Royce has-to submit the other guy. So the public wanted to have the effectiveness displayed in those early U.F.C.'s. But that effect only comes from jiu-jitsu being applied objectively. Current jiu-jitsu tournament rules do not allow the display of that effectiveness because they encourage the fighters to use the rules, not their techniques to submission, to win the fight.
Can you take us back to the days before tournament jiu-jitsu was created? Was the training and emphasis different?
The old days the fighters thought differently. In those days, anyone who competed did so with the intent to submit his or her opponent. Every jiu-jitsu instructor that grew up in Brazil knows how it used to be. It wasn't to score points; it was to make the other person tap. Unfortunately, the approach of using points has distorted the way people train. Now they think about making some points and holding them. It has backfired against them.
Who created "sport jiu-jitsu"? Have the rules changed much since its original inception?
The foundation is the same as it was since my father was the president of the first Brazilian jiu-jitsu federation back in Brazil, but over the years people kept coming up with "what-ifs". Those questions led to small changes here and there, until we now have a completely different animal.
What do you think about the level of today's top tournament jiu-jitsu players? Are there any that stand out in your opinion?
I don't watch much of the sport today, but of course Cumprido, Margarida, Saulo, Roleta, and all of the others at the top are exceptional. I really hope they make an appearance at the tournament because it is another chance for them to really establish credibility for themselves as world champions.
Have any of them confirmed their entrance into the tournament? The prize for first place in the black belt division is substantial.
A few have expressed interest, but we haven't confirmed them yet.
Can you explain the differences between your rules and the current rules in jiu-jitsu?
First, there are no points for the takedown because we want to discourage someone from repeatedly taking the person down and letting them up over and over until time runs out. Let the wrestler or judo player enter their own competitions. Jiu-jitsu is won by submission on the ground. The only positions that count for points are the ones that demonstrate a clear superiority of one fighter over the other. A sweep is completely irrelevant unless you can land in a superior position. Those positions are: mount, cross-mount, and the back mount. There are no advantages given because they are subject to the referee's interpretation, and anyone who has competed knows that the interpretation will change from ref to ref. Also, there are many referees who are influenced by the coaches on the sidelines. You cannot have a world-class event with that kind of uncertainty. We also do not have a time limit. This is so that one competitor doesn't use the clock to win after scoring a couple of points. The first person to twelve points, in our competition, is the winner. Let the guy who has better technique win the fight. For those who think the fight might be too long, it won't happen. Different positions will be timed to prevent stalling. If someone wants to stall, let them stay home and watch T.V. instead.
You also have a rule about grabbing both sleeves at the same time. Some people have complained about that because they feel it eliminates some techniques.
Usually when people grab the sleeves, they are trying to hold the guy on top from passing his open guard. It shouldn't be used for stalling. If you want to go for a sweep or submission and you need to grab both sleeves, that's allowed. But you can't hold them for long. You make your move and if it doesn't work, you can't just stall in that position.
Do you feel that jiu-jitsu tournaments help prepare someone for a real fight?
Jiu-jitsu is ultimately a method of self-defense. A tournament should be a safe environment to practice your self-defense skills. Your performance in the tournament should reflect your effectiveness in a street fight without having the violence of a street fight.
What about the gi? Do you feel that training with the gi helps prepare you for a real fight? When should one train without the gi?
I think one should train with the gi, and without it. It is at the instructor's discretion when he thinks the student is ready to train without the gi. You can't always expect your opponent to be wearing something thick like a gi, but we train with it for hygienic reasons and because it allows for a wider variety of techniques. Training without the gi, once in awhile is good too.
Your sons, Ryron, Rener, and Ralek, have performed very well under the current rules, and your new tournament rules. Do you have any plans to send them to the World Championships in Brazil next year?
My idea is to change things over to these new rules, so no plans to send them to Brazil to compete yet. We are hoping for a grassroots movement that will change the way tournaments are run. My dream is to make Gracie Jiu-jitsu an Olympic sport. The only way we are going to be able to accomplish that is to have a large number of people abiding by the same rules. I don't think we will ever reach that goal (of having the sport in the Olympics) under the way the rules are now.
This seems to be a huge undertaking. How can people help?
Everyone can help by bringing their teams to compete. I want to hear back from the competitors, as in, "yeah! We like it!" or, "No. We don't." One thing for sure, there are people who don't like the way things are currently.
You came up with the best prize I can imagine for the winner of each division: An all expense paid trip to Brazil to train with the Grandmaster, Helio Gracie. How did you come up with that?
More than anything, I wanted to encourage those guys who want to step up and support what we are trying to do. I want to show my appreciation to them. Because I am Helio's son, I can arrange this type of prize that money can't buy. It's as if I am the son of George W. Bush, and I invite the winners for a tour of the White House with the President. I really believe that this tournament will change things; the way the UFC changed martial arts. I did the UFC, so I know what I can do with this. My father is also very excited to have these winners there. He is looking forward to it.
Some people feel that a $100 entry fee is too much for a tournament. What do you say to them?
Well, if you take your girlfriend out for a nice dinner and buy a bottle of wine, it's about $100. Since you shouldn't be drinking anyway, this is a better investment! (Laughs) What you have here is a chance to spend one week in Brazil with the last of the great grandmasters in martial arts; this is the man who has actually created a style that has revolutionized the martial arts world. A trip like this is worth $100,000, so I think $100 is a bargain.
Where can people find more information?
By visiting the website

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