Our latest interview with JIU-JITSU.NETs founder and author of five Brazilian Jiu-jitsu titles, including the largest BJJ book ever written. Interview by BJJfighter. How did you first get involved in martial arts? When I was very young my mother enrolled me in martial arts, due to a hand-eye coordination problem (that turned out to be dyslexia) and thought it would help. I was about nine years old and started with Karate At what point did you begin taking on the role of teacher and trainer? After I enrolled in my first Jiu-Jitsu school. After about two years I began teaching my instructor's kids class. What style of traditional ju-jitsu did you study? Kushin-Ryu was the name of the style What made you decide to open your own academy? I had always been teaching for my teachers and I opened my school here at NYMAG for my instructor and his style of Jiu-Jitsu; so my school originally opened as a traditional Jiu-Jitsu school, and along with four or five other martial arts, we made it a martial arts gym. When did you decide to make Jiu-Jitsu your full time profession? Shortly after opening my school. I made the decision after playing professionally in a band for a while; I got sick of the night life and of always being very unhealthy and underweight. How were you first introduced to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? Like everyone else who had been doing martial arts before 1993, I saw the Ultimate Fighting Championship and thought it was the best. What was it about BJJ that separated it from previous arts you trained, and why did you decide to make it the focus of your martial arts study? Actually it was very similar to studying traditional Jiu-Jitsu and Judo. It did involve more groundwork and I think guys like me, who were better at standup, would throw a BJJ fighter down they wouldn't just stop. Often in traditional Jiu-Jitsu, after the throw that was it, but in BJJ they kept going and I would eventually get caught in an armbar or triangle. I then realized how important it was to finish the fight after the throw. Today, BJJ has spread throughout the US and it isn't too difficult to find an instructor. However, at the time you began training, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was still in its infancy here in the US, how did this fact impact your training? It was extremely difficult, I remember the first school I ever trained at was Renzo Gracie in NYC, and that was tough because from where I live and where my school was in upstate NY it was and hour and a half drive. At the time I was working three jobs, playing in a band, working in a music shop, and running NYMAG, so I would have to get time off from work just to train. So that was really very hard and it forced me to make a lot of decisions and give some things up in order to keep up my training In your quest for quality instruction, where were some of the places you went and people you trained under? Well, now there are a lot of schools so it is very easy to find numerous instructors and train at a variety of places, back then this was almost impossible. I was lucky to always have my own team, I always had NYMAG. Therefore I never started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with the intention of joining someone else's team, but still I was very curious. So I went out to California, which at the time was where 90% of black belt Jiu-Jitsu instruction was in the US. There was basically Renzo and the Machados in NY and some schools in Orlando and Miami, but other than that it was predominantly California. So I trained with Allan Goes there, and of course The Gracie Academy, which at the time was the Mecca of Jiu-Jitsu in the US, and I feel the best training that I got out there was from Joe Morriera, who was a very skilled and diverse teacher. When you opened NYMAG not many people were familiar with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, how were you able to attract students to this relatively unknown art? I had a good student base to start with from when I taught Traditional Jiu-Jitsu and most of my students followed me when I switched to the Brazilian system. I think they were impressed that I was willing to take off my black belt in traditional Jiu-Jitsu and teach as a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which I saw as the better style. Also, at the time the way you got a lot of respect was by doing challenge matches, so I had a boxing ring and I would go around to other schools and drop off flyers saying, "Come to our school Friday Night if you want to test your skills in the ring" and I pretty much got in the ring and fought anyone that would come. Many of the people I fought then are still great friends of mine today. So we really built our reputation on no holds barred fighting in the early days. Your school was originally affiliated with Marcio Simas; however the two of you eventually parted. Why was that? I think it was mainly distance, I had Marcio here few times for seminars, and I traveled out to Florida to train with him a few times as well. He just couldn't come here very much to teach; he was running his own academy and was organizing tournaments at the time so he was very busy. I never had any problems with him or the way he taught, I think he was a very good teacher. Now he's opening a second academy in Orlando and doing very well. It was just too difficult for him to fly all the way out here to teach as much as I would have needed him to at the time. How did you meet Fernando Sarmento Jr.? I was training with Marcio and at the time I was brining many different people here to teach at NYMAG because being a purple belt I wanted higher instruction and I also wanted to share this with my students. Fernando happened to be going to college close to my school and he stopped by one day and we hit it off and started rolling and training a lot together, and because he was in the area and needed money I gave him a job here for quite some time. How did having a black belt at your school on a regular basis improve your situation? It improved it tremendously, there was a huge difference. I think the experience that goes in to being a black belt in this art in particular really makes a great difference in teaching ability. What do you have to say to those in the BJJ community who criticize you for training with a lot of different teachers? I think the idea of training with one teacher only comes from a sport mentality and I guess if you have no interest in teaching on your own, I can understand it; you don't train with another 'team'. However, I can think of quite a few very good Black Belts who got each belt from a different teacher and on a professional level, training with different 'teams' or teachers throughout your career is a common practice. When I started training in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, I was also training in wrestling, boxing, jeet kune do, aikijitsu and running my school as a Black Belt in Jiu-jitsu. My objective in learning Brazilian (the Gracie Family Style) Jiu-jitsu was to become a well rounded martial artist, both for my own interest and for my students. It was never my intention to join anyone's team because I had my own school, my goal was to make my own (school) better. I had been studying martial arts my whole life and knew the tradition of specialty schools was nothing new; in ancient Japan, you'd have different styles that specialized in different things, but even within on art, like Jiu-jitsu, you'd have schools that specialized in hip throws like Kito Ryu, others in ground work like Fusen Ryu … this is how we got Judo, it is a collection of many Jiu-jitsu styles. The same is true for Brazilian Jiu-jitsu; I've had teachers with a very good guard who knew more than others about that area, I've had teachers with a better top game, etc … My goal was to know as much as possible about the art of Jiu-jitsu so that I could be a better teacher to my students and never leave a question unanswered. What would you say separates a purple belt from a brown belt? For me it was a lot of experience. At purple belt I decided the path I wanted to take. If you had asked me what I wanted to do with Jiu-Jitsu when I was at a blue belt level I would have said, fight, because I fought a great deal at that level. However, by the time I reached purple belt level I began realizing that I was more of a teacher than a fighter. Then from purple to brown I think I learned more about teaching then anything else, and in doing so I improved my game extremely; this is because when learning about teaching you really have to build an extremely solid foundation first, and I had to focus on learning how to teach the basics perfectly to my students to make them better. Also, in the process, my basics became so solid that it made the more advanced techniques that I know work much better What prompted you to author The BJJ Student Handbook and what did you hope to accomplish with it? At the time I wrote the book, there were only two or three books on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu out there and they were all small and not very detailed or expansive. I decided to put something together for my students from my personal notes. Also, at the time I was training a lot at New England Submission Fighting with Kirik and Dave Roy, who now own www.MMA.TV, and they had released The Fighter's Notebook, which really inspired me. Then Dave Roy was talking to me one day and he pointed out that no one really had a sport Jiu-Jitsu web site with pictures and techniques and no one has released a book on it either, so he encouraged to put these things out there. So I became the first guy to have pictorial technique demonstrations of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu on the internet and after a long time of taking pictures I had enough techniques to go ahead and put together my first book. When Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: The Master Text came out it was the most comprehensive book on the subject of BJJ ever created. How difficult was it to compile such a large and in depth body of work? It was very difficult. Although I had all the research from writing two other books previously, the most difficult part was putting together the book, getting all the photographs, and making things look consistent. I had no experience doing layout or design (which I had to do myself) so I had to teach myself how to use different programs and put everything together, so it was extremely difficult and it took a couple of years to complete. Following its release The Master Text has received rave reviews, how satisfying is it to see your work being so highly regarded? It was more surprising than satisfying, because there were so many great Jiu-Jitsu teachers around and at the time I was by comparison relatively inexperienced. I was very surprised by two things in particular, one was that it was so well received by very advanced people and two was how many people told me they were seeing things they hadn't before. I was really very happy and feel very lucky. How will the new Master Text improve upon what you have done with your previous books? Like you wouldn't believe, I joke that the old Master Text is like a redheaded step child in comparison to the new one. The new one really blows it away It's the difference between a 300 page book to an 800 page book. Also, I had this one professionally laid out and designed, plus I have the experience of writing more Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu books than anyone else under my belt, this is really what I do. People are going to notice a tremendous difference in the professional quality of the book and most importantly the techniques and the organization has improved so much from a technical standpoint. What will separate the Master Text II from books that are already out on the market? I think what guys like Kid Peleigro have done is great from a marketing standpoint. He has released a book on self defense, one on sport Jiu-Jitsu, another on submission grappling, and now focused on the art's history. However, I think if you put all those books together then you get The Master Text, each one of those books is like a chapter from the Master Text. So with my product, instead of having to buy 4 or 5 separate books you get everything in one shot. Also my idea of technique placement is very different from what most people are doing, I like to link and sequence the moves showing one technique, then the escape, then the counter to the escape, and so on and so forth. With the success of both your students and now your book, there is a great demand for your instruction. What would you say makes your approach to teaching Jiu-Jitsu unique and what is your strongest asset as a trainer? I really do spell things out for my students, so that they don't have to piece together everything on their own. I emphasize the basics, when I'm teaching I'm not trying to put on a show for anybody, I'm more interested in getting them to learn. I believe I show each of my students what they really need to know in order to develop a solid foundation and not only that I also address each of their individual needs. Some students focus on sport, others on self defense and I teach each accordingly and give them individual attention. When teaching a student, how do you balance the instruction between sport and self defense? When I first started training Things used to get very rough; we didn't even know what the hell 'sport' Jiu-jitsu was. All Jiu-jitsu was for Vale Tudo and the difference between Jiu-jitsu and other martial arts for self-defense (we figured) was that Jiu-jitsu was designed to beat other martial arts instead of the average person. I remember seeing sport Jiu-jitsu matches for the first time and saying, "wow, why aren't they punching?" It wasn't really a big thing back then and rolling for sport was only how we trained with our friends to develop our technique more. We always associated 'sport' with Judo and figured it would water down the art (like Judo) if we concentrated too much on sport. Therefore, I did it to appease some of my Brazilian instructors, but never got really into it. For my students, I make it very clear that they are two different things. I think that practicing sport Jiu-Jitsu is very important for self defense because it will help to develop reflexes, reaction time, and a certain level of comfort with the techniques; it takes some of the fear out of them. So on that level sport Jiu-Jitsu is excellent for helping ones self defense; however you have to really let people know that there are a lot of things that you do in sport that you absolutely should not do in self defense. The simplest example being jumping to your guard, that's something you would not want to do in a street fight. At NYMAG I have different classes for stuff like that; I have a sport specific class, a self defense class, a basics class, so everyone is well rounded. How has training with Michael Jen helped to improve your Jiu-Jitsu? Tremendously, I think what Michael does so well is he personalizes your training regimen for what you want to do. He also has a great system for everything. For example his guard passing, he teaches you one method of passing that works for four or five different leg positions. I love that, he systemizes everything and makes it extremely easy to learn. Some people won't show you everything they know so that they can suck your money out over a long period of time, Michael is really not interested in doing that. He is very interested in getting you to learn and as quickly as you can absorb the information he'll keep giving it to you. How have you managed to balance teaching and progressing your students with your own personal training and advancement? At first this was really difficult because in order to be a really good teacher you have to care more about your students that yourself. There isn't a great deal of glory in it and you take a big chance. I've had students get really good and then turn their backs on me, so that can make things difficult. I do try to stay dedicated and guide all my students like a father would, the students are like my children in that aspect. But I think that by putting the time in and staying dedicated to my students I'm being rewarded now because they are becoming advanced so now they are paying me back by becoming my training partners. What has been your proudest moment as an instructor? That's a very tough question. The first thing that goes through my mind is my students being victorious at tournaments, but its much more than that. For example I teach a number of police officers and when they come to me and say, "You know that technique you taught in class last week was really awesome because this guy started trouble with me and I was able to take him down and use the move". When I see Jiu-Jitsu working for everyday people it great, I've had students come here and lose a tremendous amount of weight, which is outstanding. But really the most rewarding thing is seeing a student maturing over time, seeing boys become men through Jiu-Jitsu are seeing people evolve into someone better than they were before. I realize now how much Jiu-Jitsu has to do with helping your personality and your life. If you could improve the Jiu-Jitsu community in one way what would it be? One thing that I do notice is that sport Jiu-Jitsu, which is one of the greatest things for the promotion of this art, may have the potential to damage it. People are going to associate sport Jiu-Jitsu with Jiu-Jitsu as a whole and think it represents what the art is all about. But Sport Jiu-Jitsu has only really been around for about 10-15 years where the art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has been around for close to 80 years, and Jiu-Jitsu as a whole existed since the 1500s, so sport Jiu-Jitsu is only a very small fraction of what Jiu-Jitsu is, it's a way to practice and not what the art is all about. I think that naturally athletic and competitive people are drawn to sport Jiu-Jitsu, but these individuals are not always the best spokesmen for the art. I think that BJJ is the greatest art for self defense and we are unfortunately getting away from that due to the heavy emphasis on sport Jiu-Jitsu. How has Jiu-Jitsu improved your life? It improved everything, my physical appearance, my attitude, my way of thinking. It made me a more relaxed person. Also, learning how to structure and organize techniques taught me to put together other things in my life. Jiu-Jitsu taught me to be a stronger person and gave me the ability to stand up for myself and never allow anyone to take advantage of me. All Interviews